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	<title>Comments on: poll: package my vhosting system for debian?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://taz.net.au/blog/2008/04/29/poll-package-my-vhosting-system-for-debian/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://taz.net.au/blog/2008/04/29/poll-package-my-vhosting-system-for-debian/</link>
	<description>Tech Notes And Miscellaneous Thoughts</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 08:48:01 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cas</title>
		<link>http://taz.net.au/blog/2008/04/29/poll-package-my-vhosting-system-for-debian/comment-page-1/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>cas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://taz.net.au/blog/?p=8#comment-16</guid>
		<description>the css tweak isn&#039;t perfect, but it&#039;s a reasonable start.

I applied it with the &lt;a href=&quot;http://userstyles.org/stylish/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Stylish &lt;/a&gt; plugin for iceweasel. 

that works, but it would be better if the style sheet was fixed at the source.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the css tweak isn&#8217;t perfect, but it&#8217;s a reasonable start.</p>
<p>I applied it with the <a href="http://userstyles.org/stylish/" rel="nofollow"> Stylish </a> plugin for iceweasel. </p>
<p>that works, but it would be better if the style sheet was fixed at the source.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Kemp</title>
		<link>http://taz.net.au/blog/2008/04/29/poll-package-my-vhosting-system-for-debian/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Kemp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://taz.net.au/blog/?p=8#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the CSS tweak Cas; I&#039;ll try to get it applied - the hosting is a shared trac install with mercurial &amp; darcs so it might be fiddly though!

As for the availability of (both) systems; the source is freely available.  The stuff I&#039;ve done at work fails on the &quot;doesn&#039;t modify&quot; config files, but I&#039;m particularly pleased with the mail handling nice and predictable with virtually no admin overhead.

We did make some patches to mod_vhost_alias to make it work better, but basically it is Debian compliant, and working nicely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the CSS tweak Cas; I&#8217;ll try to get it applied &#8211; the hosting is a shared trac install with mercurial &amp; darcs so it might be fiddly though!</p>
<p>As for the availability of (both) systems; the source is freely available.  The stuff I&#8217;ve done at work fails on the &#8220;doesn&#8217;t modify&#8221; config files, but I&#8217;m particularly pleased with the mail handling nice and predictable with virtually no admin overhead.</p>
<p>We did make some patches to mod_vhost_alias to make it work better, but basically it is Debian compliant, and working nicely.</p>
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		<title>By: cas</title>
		<link>http://taz.net.au/blog/2008/04/29/poll-package-my-vhosting-system-for-debian/comment-page-1/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>cas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://taz.net.au/blog/?p=8#comment-11</guid>
		<description>hey Steve, that mercurial web interface thing you have - is there any way to make it not have a fixed width?

it looks silly having a tiny, narrow textarea with a horizontal scroll-bar centred in the middle of a huge wide-screen window.

fixing it is probably as simple as a one line change to your style sheet:

--- style.css.orig      2008-04-30 12:16:04.000000000 +1000
+++ style.css   2008-04-30 12:21:15.000000000 +1000
@@ -11,7 +11,7 @@


 #content {
-       width                                   : 700px;
+       width                                   : 90%;
        margin-left                             : auto;
        margin-right                    : auto;
        border                                  : 0px solid;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey Steve, that mercurial web interface thing you have &#8211; is there any way to make it not have a fixed width?</p>
<p>it looks silly having a tiny, narrow textarea with a horizontal scroll-bar centred in the middle of a huge wide-screen window.</p>
<p>fixing it is probably as simple as a one line change to your style sheet:</p>
<p>&#8212; style.css.orig      2008-04-30 12:16:04.000000000 +1000<br />
+++ style.css   2008-04-30 12:21:15.000000000 +1000<br />
@@ -11,7 +11,7 @@</p>
<p> #content {<br />
-       width                                   : 700px;<br />
+       width                                   : 90%;<br />
        margin-left                             : auto;<br />
        margin-right                    : auto;<br />
        border                                  : 0px solid;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cas</title>
		<link>http://taz.net.au/blog/2008/04/29/poll-package-my-vhosting-system-for-debian/comment-page-1/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>cas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://taz.net.au/blog/?p=8#comment-10</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Albert&lt;/strong&gt;: thanks, your config looks interesting.  mod_vhost_ldap looks OK, too.

&lt;p&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;Roger&lt;/strong&gt;: then this system isn&#039;t for you.  

BTW, the central configuration allows for automation of everything about a vhost - config generation, auxillary scripts (log processing, webcheck, search indexing, ip alias addition/removal, etc), listing/reporting, and more.

Anyone can run ls or manually hunt through a file system or a random collection of config files, but  the central config file puts ALL the information in one place in one consistent, parseable format.

The basic idea is that anything processing you do for one virtual host may be useful for other vhosts.  instead of doing a once-off hack, write your script to parse the config file and do it for every vhost that has it enabled.

In short, it&#039;s a plugin architecture for any kind of vhost processing.  The Makefile and the config file are the &#039;core&#039; and *ALL* of the scripts that use it are the plugins.

It&#039;s also an instant overview of all vhosts on your server, and what features are enabled on each.


also BTW, the system also allows regeneration if a config generator is changed (new feature, bug fix)...i.e. that&#039;s a FEATURE, not a bug.


&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;Steve&lt;/strong&gt;: cool, i&#039;ll take a look at your system (and your employer&#039;s system if that&#039;s available publicly).....there&#039;s probably some good ideas in there i can steal :)

&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;dsr&lt;/strong&gt;: sounds qmail-ish to me.  not my cup of tea.  in fact, i really dislike magic directories - makes it impossible to work on something and save your work as you go without the system activating the changes before you&#039;ve finished working on it.  that causes breakage.


&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;


I&#039;m currently tarring up my system and making a few doc notes.  If nothing urgent comes up to distract me, i&#039;ll post later today with a URL for anyone who wants to download it and take a look.  comments welcome.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Albert</strong>: thanks, your config looks interesting.  mod_vhost_ldap looks OK, too.</p>
<p><strong>Roger</strong>: then this system isn&#8217;t for you.  </p>
<p>BTW, the central configuration allows for automation of everything about a vhost &#8211; config generation, auxillary scripts (log processing, webcheck, search indexing, ip alias addition/removal, etc), listing/reporting, and more.</p>
<p>Anyone can run ls or manually hunt through a file system or a random collection of config files, but  the central config file puts ALL the information in one place in one consistent, parseable format.</p>
<p>The basic idea is that anything processing you do for one virtual host may be useful for other vhosts.  instead of doing a once-off hack, write your script to parse the config file and do it for every vhost that has it enabled.</p>
<p>In short, it&#8217;s a plugin architecture for any kind of vhost processing.  The Makefile and the config file are the &#8216;core&#8217; and *ALL* of the scripts that use it are the plugins.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also an instant overview of all vhosts on your server, and what features are enabled on each.</p>
<p>also BTW, the system also allows regeneration if a config generator is changed (new feature, bug fix)&#8230;i.e. that&#8217;s a FEATURE, not a bug.</p>
<p><strong>Steve</strong>: cool, i&#8217;ll take a look at your system (and your employer&#8217;s system if that&#8217;s available publicly)&#8230;..there&#8217;s probably some good ideas in there i can steal :)</p>
<p><strong>dsr</strong>: sounds qmail-ish to me.  not my cup of tea.  in fact, i really dislike magic directories &#8211; makes it impossible to work on something and save your work as you go without the system activating the changes before you&#8217;ve finished working on it.  that causes breakage.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m currently tarring up my system and making a few doc notes.  If nothing urgent comes up to distract me, i&#8217;ll post later today with a URL for anyone who wants to download it and take a look.  comments welcome.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: -dsr-</title>
		<link>http://taz.net.au/blog/2008/04/29/poll-package-my-vhosting-system-for-debian/comment-page-1/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>-dsr-</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://taz.net.au/blog/?p=8#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Yes, please -- it sounds sensible. Please don&#039;t do anything silly with databases. A database can always be set to generate a text file on demand; the opposite is generally harder.

I also prefer configuration systems where there is a magic directory, with one file being one configuration stanza. But, again, I can always generate a config file from such a magic directory when I get around to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, please &#8212; it sounds sensible. Please don&#8217;t do anything silly with databases. A database can always be set to generate a text file on demand; the opposite is generally harder.</p>
<p>I also prefer configuration systems where there is a magic directory, with one file being one configuration stanza. But, again, I can always generate a config file from such a magic directory when I get around to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Kemp</title>
		<link>http://taz.net.au/blog/2008/04/29/poll-package-my-vhosting-system-for-debian/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Kemp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://taz.net.au/blog/?p=8#comment-8</guid>
		<description>Interesting idea.

I created a similar system a long time ago, generating stub config files for Apache, Exim, and Webalizer:

http://vh.repository.steve.org.uk/

Interestingly my employer has come up with their own system (OK I wrote it) which uses mod_vhost_alias, and offeres virtual hosting with great email support:

http://vhost.bytemark.co.uk/

I&#039;m very good at comparing the facilities of the two approaches; having done both.  Both have issues, but your system sounds like my first effort, albeit a little more advanced, and it could be a good thing.

I guess package it and see if people enjoy using it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting idea.</p>
<p>I created a similar system a long time ago, generating stub config files for Apache, Exim, and Webalizer:</p>
<p><a href="http://vh.repository.steve.org.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://vh.repository.steve.org.uk/</a></p>
<p>Interestingly my employer has come up with their own system (OK I wrote it) which uses mod_vhost_alias, and offeres virtual hosting with great email support:</p>
<p><a href="http://vhost.bytemark.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://vhost.bytemark.co.uk/</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m very good at comparing the facilities of the two approaches; having done both.  Both have issues, but your system sounds like my first effort, albeit a little more advanced, and it could be a good thing.</p>
<p>I guess package it and see if people enjoy using it?</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Feese</title>
		<link>http://taz.net.au/blog/2008/04/29/poll-package-my-vhosting-system-for-debian/comment-page-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Feese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://taz.net.au/blog/?p=8#comment-7</guid>
		<description>I think that the idea of using make to rebuild all configs is just making this more complicated than it needs to be. While I haven&#039;t administered a system with hundreds of vhosts, I have administered systems with 15-20. I found that it was fairly easy to set up a skeleton config and directory for each new account that was copied automatically when running adduser and then creating a separate vhost config from a template. So in general, I think your methods are good but I disagree with having a central config file and rebuilding all configs with one make command. If you want to know what vhosts you have, you can do something like `ls /home/vhosts/` (each vhost has it&#039;s own directory here) or `ls /etc/apache/vhosts/` (each vhost has its own config file).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the idea of using make to rebuild all configs is just making this more complicated than it needs to be. While I haven&#8217;t administered a system with hundreds of vhosts, I have administered systems with 15-20. I found that it was fairly easy to set up a skeleton config and directory for each new account that was copied automatically when running adduser and then creating a separate vhost config from a template. So in general, I think your methods are good but I disagree with having a central config file and rebuilding all configs with one make command. If you want to know what vhosts you have, you can do something like `ls /home/vhosts/` (each vhost has it&#8217;s own directory here) or `ls /etc/apache/vhosts/` (each vhost has its own config file).</p>
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		<title>By: Albert Lash</title>
		<link>http://taz.net.au/blog/2008/04/29/poll-package-my-vhosting-system-for-debian/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert Lash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://taz.net.au/blog/?p=8#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Please share your system - sounds great. I&#039;m using mod_rewrite for a &quot;smart&quot; vhosting solution. It mainly tests for the presence of a path delimiter in the request uri as well as the presence of a file or a directory. I&#039;ve been using it for about a year and find that its almost like my filesystem &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; my configuration. 

I use Apache2-mpm-worker and mod_fcgid. I&#039;ve been evaluating mod_ldap_vhost lately, too.

Here&#039;s a recent copy of my apache2.conf for reference:

http://www.docunext.com/wiki/Apache_Configuration</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please share your system &#8211; sounds great. I&#8217;m using mod_rewrite for a &#8220;smart&#8221; vhosting solution. It mainly tests for the presence of a path delimiter in the request uri as well as the presence of a file or a directory. I&#8217;ve been using it for about a year and find that its almost like my filesystem <em>is</em> my configuration. </p>
<p>I use Apache2-mpm-worker and mod_fcgid. I&#8217;ve been evaluating mod_ldap_vhost lately, too.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a recent copy of my apache2.conf for reference:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.docunext.com/wiki/Apache_Configuration" rel="nofollow">http://www.docunext.com/wiki/Apache_Configuration</a></p>
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